Asian American students weigh in on end of affirmative action in college admissions

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• Amna Nawaz:

  Since the Supreme Court struck down affirmative action in college admissions, questions remain over how this will affect students moving forward and who will be most impacted.

  The court sided with plaintiffs, who argued race-conscious admissions discriminate against Asian Americans. But how do Asian American students feel about the loss of race-based college admissions?

  Let's hear first from some who support the decision and then those that oppose it.

• Jeff Hou, High School Student:

  I was overjoyed with the decision. I believe that the Supreme Court got this right and that affirmative action needed to go.

  Obviously, this doesn't guarantee us entry into any college we want. But what this does guarantee me is that I know that everything that happens is not because of something I can't control. And if I don't get in, it's because I could have just worked harder. It's because I should have studied more, not because of something that I can't change, which is in my race.

• Jayson, High School Student:

  They take away opportunities from certain ethnic groups in order to benefit others, which is completely racist.

  And Asian Americans such as me and my peers, we have worked extremely hard. And we fear that our college admissions will be denied because of our race. I was considering, like, opting if — opting out of my race in the college admissions process. But I think now that affirmative action is gone, it's just more fair. And if I don't get into the college I want to get into it's not something that I can't control. And it's more of, like, I could have worked harder.

• Justin Wang, College Student:

  I come from a pretty privileged family, right, relatively affluent. And I understand that I perhaps do have some advantages over many others.

  However, I think that disadvantage is not from the color of my skin, right? I don't want to — I don't want to be judged on that.

• Amy Lum, College Student:

  I definitely believe that affirmative action is beneficial to Asian Americans. The Asian American community is a very diverse community. We have, like, Hmong people, Vietnamese people, Cambodian people, Chinese people.

  We have all sorts of different cultures. And so affirmative action is one of those things that ensures that our culture is represented and that we all have a voice.

• Zoe Choe, College Student:

  Race is something that, historically, has been very important in shaping the lives of current — of people currently, and that's not something that I think can be ignored, especially on a level when people are applying to colleges.

• Wena Teng, College Student:

  I actually wrote a paper in high school against affirmative action, because a lot of the conversation in my household and growing up was always on the idea of, like, meritocracy, which a lot of people against affirmative action are talking about now, and this idea of survival.

  Again, if you work so hard, you should be able to deserve it. But, as I'm now going through the reality of this country and navigating all these systems and spaces, I'm starting to realize that meritocracy is only an illusion, and that there are just so many, again, factors that make meritocracy incredibly hard.

• Lucas Lin, College Student:

  Until we progress to — in a society where, I think, I don't know, maybe Americans can truly be race-blind, or we can truly acknowledge each others as equals, or be more holistic in our interpretations and our understanding of others and our identities, I think that affirmative action still has a place.

• Amna Nawaz:

  To dig more deeply into those views, I'm joined by Janelle Wong. She's a political scientist and the director of Asian American studies at the University of Maryland. And Susana Liu-Hedberg, the executive director of the education nonprofit The 1990 Institute.

  Welcome to you both.

  Janelle, I will begin with you.

  Based on your work and the research that you have done, and what you just heard from those students there, how do you believe that Asian American students will be impacted by the Supreme Court's decision?

  Janelle Wong, Professor of American Studies, University of Maryland-College Park: So, I'm a senior researcher at AAPI Data.

  And we have been asking Asian American registered voters this question about whether they favor or oppose affirmative action programs designed to help Black people, women and other minorities get better access to education. And, for more than 10 years, we have found consistent support for affirmative action among Asian Americans interviewed in language.

  And young people, just like those you heard from, on the whole are even more supportive. So I recognize the value of hearing from diverse voices. But, on the whole, I think Asian American students are going to really miss the diversity that happens when you have a program in place that systematically accounts for lack of access for some groups to the college campus.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Susana, one of the students mentioned Asian American comprises a very broad range of racial and ethnic backgrounds.

  And, to Janelle's point, they do broadly support affirmative action. But does that support change based on which group you're talking about?

  Susana Liu-Hedberg, The 1990 Institute: It does change.

  And as we delve deeper and disaggregate data, the myth of the Asian American monolith and the model minority myth correlate in this way. And we see this playing out with, for example, the June Pew Research survey which showed that the Asian — that Asian Americans have mixed views on affirmative action and of what — the interviews that you saw.

  So, first of all, just uplifting the Pew Research survey that was done a few years ago that showcased 30-plus different ethnicities that are under one Asian American monolith, that we all, 30-plus ethnicities, are the same, we experience the same things, desire the same things. And when we disaggregate this data, we find that not every Asian American has the same lived experience.

  And the study even delves deeper into each ethnicity and where they fall within poverty and education, including access to higher education.

• Amna Nawaz:

  There's a couple of really good ideas in there I want to pull apart.

  But, Janelle, I want to put to you some of those numbers that Susana just referenced. When you take a look at those Pew numbers on Asian American views of affirmative action, overall, 53 percent of those surveyed say it's a good thing. They support affirmative action.

  But then 76 percent said race should not be a factor in admissions, and in 53 percent said that considering race and ethnicity in admissions would make the process less fair.

  Janelle, those seem to be contradictory ideas. So what should we understand about that?

• Janelle Wong:

  So with the Pew question race and ethnicity as a factor, it provides very little context to respondents. It asks if race should be a major, minor or no factor.

  And that is not how admissions works in the real world. Race has been considered holistically. So, in race-conscious admissions, race is never the only factor considered, nor is that the primary factor. But many think it is. And this may affect how they respond to that question.

  Some with this question may not even know that they're being asked about affirmative action. And I think what's really critical here is that other studies have shown that a majority of Asian Americans do support affirmative action.

  But Susana is right. There's one group that doesn't support affirmative action consistently. And that is my own group, Chinese Americans.

• Amna Nawaz:

  And what should we understand about why that view is held among Chinese Americans, Janelle?

• Janelle Wong:

  Well, Susana mentioned the model minority myth. This is the idea that Asian Americans have a special value for education and are uber-competent.

  Jacqueline Lee and her colleagues show that the internalization and endorsement of this model minority myth is associated with anti-Black attitudes among Asian Americans and associated with skepticism about affirmative action.

  Let me be really clear. Asian Americans face racial discrimination, and they are victims of white supremacy. But that is really what gave this Supreme Court case power.

  Edward Blum recruited Asian American plaintiffs because they are victims of white supremacy, and they shielded his organization from charges of racism. So, the fact is that Black, Latino and Native American students are showing up — the fact that they're showing up on these campuses in much smaller proportions compared to white and Asian students tells us that something is wrong with the system, and that some groups face much higher barriers to accessing education than others.

  And that's not fair, and it does not lead to opportunity for all.

• Amna Nawaz:

  So, Susana, clearly, the views held among the very diverse population that falls under the category of Asian Americans, it's very complicated and worth unpacking, disaggregating.

  But when it comes to impact, what do you believe that the Supreme Court's decisions — what the impact of that will be on Asian American students?

• Susana Liu-Hedberg:

  First of all, diversity remains incredibly important in any learning environment.

  And as we can see from the interviews and also the surveys that we have read, this issue was and it remains a complex one. The two cases and the ruling tied two mutually exclusive things together. On the one hand, we acknowledge that there needs to be some mechanism in place to support students that have been historically marginalized and underrepresented to ensure equity in access to higher education.

  But, on the other hand, if processes are or — and admissions are based on one certain criteria, like race, then that does become discriminatory. Now, affirmative action didn't need to be struck down. But it did need to be fixed. The law, like many other of our laws, is — it's not perfect.

  But it was and could have been reworked or implemented differently to reflect today's needs and address the inequities and the frustration that some of the AAPI community felt, and also in the case of the students that you interviewed here.

  The nation really did a disservice to so many minority students by taking a sledgehammer, basically, to decades of progress. We should have worked together to find a solution that allowed all historically underrepresented minority students to thrive, which includes Asian American students.

  And, also, now is the time where we're looking to do and see what's next. Now's the time to seize on the opportunity to move forward and really work together, not just within the AAPI community, but also all affected communities.

• Amna Nawaz:

  That is Susana Liu-Hedberg and Janelle Wong.

  Thank you both for joining us and bringing your experience to this very complicated issue. Thank you.