'The problem with the supermajority': State police chief lays into Republicans over gun bill

After the head of the Indiana State Police uncharacteristically slammed Republicans for pursuing constitutional carry legislation, a Senate committee gutted a bill that would have nixed Indiana's requirement for a permit to carry a handgun. 

“This is the problem with the supermajority. It stifles, prohibits, oftentimes limits public debate,” said ISP Superintendent Douglas Carter. “I sure hope you choose to show deference to law enforcement professionals that understand the magnitude and the frontline effects of this legislation, rather than the possibility of getting reelected or elected the next primary.”

For subscribers:Indiana Republicans push social issues in legislature as heavily contested primary nears

Carter, who was the last person to testify in a rare 8-hour long committee hearing, was appointed by former Republican Gov. Mike Pence and reappointed by Republican Gov. Eric Holcomb. It's unprecedented for a member of Holcomb's administration to directly criticize the Republican supermajority in such a biting way during committee testimony.

“We’ve offered advice and suggestions and sometimes even complex counsel on these complex issues," Carter continued. "But I never remember a time when outside influence of national associations or political posturing became the driving force behind any legislation in our great state until now.”

Indiana:CRT-inspired legislation passes key vote in Indiana Senate despite mounting opposition

The issue clearly split Republicans in the Senate. The Senate Judiciary Committee meeting was filled with bickering between mostly Republicans over the committee's procedures and the amendments offered on the bill. 

At one point during testimony, chairwoman Liz Brown, R-Fort Wayne, reprimanded lawmakers on the committee who were out in the hall instead of in the committee room.

"If you're on this committee, you're going to sit and listen to testimonies," she said.

At another point Sen. Aaron Freeman, R-Indianapolis, accused Brown of changing the committee rules. 

Ultimately, Republicans settled on revising the bill rather than voting it up or down. As amended, House Bill 1077 would keep the permit requirement in place to carry a handgun in Indiana. However, it would enable qualified candidates who have applied for a permit to carry a handgun without a license until they receive their permit. The idea is that this would end complaints about delays in the permitting process. 

The amendment to gut the bill just narrowly passed by a 6-5 vote, splitting the Republicans on the committee. Every Democrat voted to gut the bill. Shortly after, the committee unanimously voted to advance the bill to the floor. Some were unhappy with the bill, but voted to keep it moving. 

The legislative battle likely isn't over. The bill could be further changed, including back to constitutional carry, on the Senate floor with enough support. 

Pushback on the original bill 

Under the original version of HB 1077, anyone who legally can carry a handgun now could do so without a permit. The measure had already passed the House by a 64-29 vote, despite widespread police opposition. 

Two county sheriffs did speak in favor of the bill, including the Hamilton County Sheriff, but they were in the minority. Officers and representatives from the Fort Wayne Police Department, Evansville Police Department, the Indiana Association of Chiefs of Police, the Indiana State Fraternal Order of Police and Indiana State Police all testified against the bill on Wednesday. 

Last year a similar bill passed the House, but died after Brown declined to give the bill a hearing.

“Last year many of you did not want to hear about a bill similar to this one,” Carter said as lawmakers considered the bill. “So what changed?”

Carter defended Brown, who has been criticized by social conservative groups for opposing the legislation. The National Association for Gun Rights Political Action Committee sent out a release last month calling for primary challengers to unseat Brown, but was unsuccessful in attracting a candidate. 

"Sen. Brown is not anti-gun or anti-Second Amendment," Carter said. "I've learned quite the opposite about her."

He referenced a flier that he said appeared on her doorstop saying she was working with President Joe Biden to fight against guns.

“What have we become?" Carter asked. "I've come to know Sen.Brown is an advocate for doing what's right, to be thoughtful and respectful even in the face of enormous adversity from all sides and stands alone even if necessary."

Bill author Rep. Ben Smaltz, R-Auburn, pushed to nix the permit requirement, because law abiding citizens are the only ones who follow permit rules now in place, he said. Criminals aren't being stopped, he thinks. 

"House Bill 1077 gets us to a place where the law-abiding citizen is not required to go through a process of asking permission, submitting to government investigation, supplying their fingerprints, to enjoy your right that is constitutional at a federal level and is constitutional at the state level," Smaltz said before the bill was amended. "This bill seeks to level the playing field for the law-abiding Hoosier to defend themselves in public."

Attorney Guy Relford, one of the most influential pro-Second Amendment voices in Indiana, argued people shouldn't be punished simply because they didn't ask for permission to use a constitutional right. 

He referenced a 20-year-old client he had who faced jail time because his unloaded gun was deemed not far away enough from him in his car during a minor traffic stop. 

Opponents of the initial bill, though, pointed out that voting is a constitutional right as well, and an ID is required to exercise that right too.

Nixing the permit requirement doesn't appear to be all that popular with Hoosiers. On every Senate constituent survey posted online which contained a question on whether the law on handgun permits should change, the majority of Hoosiers said no. 

Likewise, police representing various agencies testified against the bill in committee. They worried about the inability for officers to quickly determine whether someone legally should possess a handgun while on the side of the road, if the license is nixed altogether. Right now there is no single database law enforcement can easily check.

"The current system is not broken. It works," said Detective Matt Foote from the Fort Wayne Police Department. "Right now we have a good system in place with permits that allows us very quickly within a couple minutes to be able to tell whether somebody is a prohibited person."

Officers also said individuals would have to background check themselves if the permit requirement was nixed, and might not know they aren't qualified to carry a handgun. Detective Matt Foote from the Fort Wayne Police Department, said 14% of those who applied for permits in his community in 2021 were denied. 

Despite widespread opposition from police agencies, two sheriffs spoke in support of the bill: Hamilton County Sheriff Dennis Quakenbush and Martin County Sheriff Travis Roush.

"I tend to believe the states with less gun laws are more safe," Quakenbush argued. "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

A study from Everytown for Gun Safety, a group that advocates for firearm restrictions, reached a different conclusion in a study released this year, though it did not focus solely on permit laws.

Critics of the original bill worried it could lead to more violence, in part because without a handgun permitting process, those under 21-years of age would never complete a background check before carrying a handgun, since they cannot legally purchase a handgun. 

“The licensure process is not a burdensome process," said Jennifer Haan, a mom’s demand action volunteer leader. "It is a burden to lose a child to gun violence.”

Haan said she applied for her own permit in February 2021 and received it in April 2021. 

Some House Republicans have been trying to nix Indiana's permitting requirement since at least 2016. 

As conservative House lawmakers pushed to end the handgun permit requirement over the years, legislators placated the conservative wing of the party by slowly chipping away at barriers to getting a handgun permit. 

The permit is now free, after lawmakers slipped a provision into the budget in the 11th hour last year to eliminate the $125 lifetime permit fee. 

The session ends by March 14.

Call IndyStar reporter Kaitlin Lange at 317-432-9270. Follow her on Twitter: @kaitlin_lange.